Today, our Birmingham Law School campus Ambassador, Ryan Dzingala sat down with NCA Tutor™️ Mentor and Bennett Jones Corporate Lawyer, Elad Travis. Ryan explores Elad’s journey from a lawyer in Israel, through the NCA process, and to a successful Canadian legal career.
RD : Before getting into the questions about your journey through the NCA process, and pursuing your legal career in Canada, I think it might help readers to understand your international educational background and international career first. Which country and university did you study for your undergraduate degree, and pursue your law degree?
ET: I am Israeli, I studied in Israel. I did my undergraduate and law degrees at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, one of the two leading universities in Israel. After graduating I articled for Herzog, Fox, and Neeman, the largest law firm in Israel.
RD: Did you always know that you wanted to pursue a career in law?
ET: As I got older, I realized more and more that I wanted to be a lawyer. I like practicing law but in school I realized how much I enjoy the study of the law. Hopefully, one day I’ll be able to pursue and contribute to the academic side of it. But I always wanted to practice law.
RD: When did you figure out what type of law you were most interested in and wanted to pursue?
ET: At school I took some courses in corporate law, mergers and acquisitions and anti-trust law. It piqued my interest, especially antitrust, and I knew this is what I wanted to do. When I did pre-articling in Israel, which is, summering with the firm, I was assigned to the real estate group and, while it became clear early on that I did not want to work in that field, I am grateful for having gained that experience.
RD: After practicing for a number of years in the area of corporate law, what influenced your decision to pursue a legal career in Canada?
ET: I worked as an associate in anti-trust and corporate and securities, then I moved to a smaller big firm that specialized in anti-trust. After seven years of working in Israel, I moved to Canada for family reasons, as my wife is Canadian. We moved to Toronto about five years ago, and I quickly started the NCA process and was assigned five exams because of previous experience and education.
RD: Something people might be interested in is the type of legal system in Israel. Both Canada and the United Kingdom go off of a common law system. What style of legal system is used in Israel?
ET: It's actually a very interesting case of a mixed jurisdiction. In Israel is mostly a common law system which is based on British law because of the British Mandate. The British were in Israel between 1921 to 1948. Until 1986 the Israeli courts actually used the UK law as precedent. You can even see remnants of laws from the Ottoman Empire who ruled the area before the British. To make things more interesting, parts of family law are under religious jurisdiction, so there are Jewish and Muslim religious courts sometimes operating parallel to the civil family courts. So it’s quite an interesting legal system but because Israel is 90% common law it was fairly easy for me to make the transition.
RD: What sorts of challenges did you face while going through the NCA process, and getting your law degree accredited in Canada?
ET: There are obviously challenges, both professional and personal. For me, to move to a new country. But my wife’s family is a support system which is helpful. And the NCA’s were not so difficult. I had a lot of help from Liran, and he already had notes for the core courses which I got from him. All of the courses, the prep courses, the exam workshops, were really helpful. I also took a few private lessons with him on topics that I felt that I needed extra support, like administrative law. But, all in all, the NCA process was not too difficult. I was required to take the minimum number of exams, and was fortunate enough to pass the first time. I think the bar exam were not unfairly difficult. It’s a lot, and you have to manage your time, but I think like academically or intellectually, I don’t think it was that challenging. The hard part was juggling the studying with four children, including newborn twins. I should add something very important, though. We were living on saved money, so I was very lucky that I didn't have to work during this time, that I could dedicate all my time to studying. Had I needed to work, managing everything together would be have been much more challenging.
RD: Something international students have been told is that when writing the NCA exams, they expect you to think a certain way and write the exam in a specific way that Canadian educated students are taught, but internationally trained students sometimes struggle with this. Did you find that you had to adopt a new writing style or method of studying in order to be successful when you wrote the NCA’s?
ET: I think I had this discussion with Liran, the way things are taught in Israel is actually similar to the way things are taught in Canada. Plus, again, I think the classes with Liran were really helpful because I knew how to approach the questions. It’s often the case of people not knowing how to approach the questions. They may have all the relevant information, but maybe it’s not presented in the right way, maybe the emphasis is not where it should be. But I feel that I was really prepared, and it’s not for no reason that I took all of these courses and paid for them. It really helped me a lot. So, I think if I had done independently, it may not have been this straightforward.
RD: A number of employers in Canada are skeptical when it comes to hiring internationally trained lawyers, as they are often times unaware of the different legal styles and practices in other countries, what tips or recommendations would you have for students trying to sell their legal experience or international education while finding articling positions?
ET: This was a major challenge, finding a position. I looked for a job for almost a year and as soon as I got the opportunity to get my foot in the door, I took it. For me, looking for work was work, it was a full-time job. It was extremely frustrating because I thought I had got off to a great start. I spoke to experienced lawyers, then sent them my resume, which they edited. They told me what to write, how to phrase my cover letter. It took me a few months just to start looking, and I think that is the right way. You have to be very, very prepared. You have to work on your resume, you have to package it sort of in a way that is approachable to Canadians, which is different than the way back home. And then there were more things to do. I went on a firm's website, looked at the different lawyers, see if we have things in common in the fields that I wanted to work in. I’d look at the firm’s portfolio and see if there were any common clients or transactions from my work in Israel, I took everything very seriously.
RD: You mentioned making your cover letter and resume seem more approachable to recruiters, do you have any tips or recommendations to help students accomplish that?
ET: Yes, I would run it by a trained lawyer, and it depends on the stage of your career and if you’re applying for an articling position. For instance, right now I am mentoring an articling student at my firm. I got his resume, and it has a whole section about hobbies and things like that, and then skills. Okay, why is he writing these things? Apparently, that’s the way that a resume for an articling student should be, but you wouldn't know that if you don’t send it to somebody who knows that. I am sure there are professional services if you don’t know anyone or any lawyers, send it to professional services here, or even recruitment firms.
RD: When trying to enter the area of corporate law, students are often under the impression that the only route is to apply through 1L and 2L summer internships at a big Bay Street law firm, and then article at those same firms. What advice would you give to students who may not have secured any internships throughout their legal education?
ET: The best thing would be to try to show the Canadian employers that you speak the same language, so to speak. If you have enough money and can do an LLM. In an LLM program you can manage to meet new people - people that may be helpful for networking. I would even recommend trying to volunteer at a firm. I don’t know how easy that is, but to get some experience many people do doc review. So that’s probably a good way to get your foot in the door. You actually get to work. Not with the partners, but with the associates. Networking is a major thing. Nowadays, looking for work, you can’t just go into websites and send your resume, you have to make an effort, especially if you’re coming from another jurisdiction, and you don’t know anyone here. I think that is the way, hopefully one will impress the potential employers enough to get hired. Networking was a major element in me finding my job, a partner at the firm recommended me and at the time the firm was extremely busy and needed to hire a lot of associates.
RD: In your opinion what are some things that might make or break an interview for people or things that you would recommend people avoid when going into interviews for legal jobs?
ET: When you talk about your previous work experience and your jurisdiction, speak about it only in the context of how similar this is to the potential job in Canada. Don't go on and on and tell them anecdotes and tidbits, you know? And always come prepared with questions, and this is general advice, not only for NCA students. You don’t want to be in a position that the potential employer asks you if you have another question and another question, and you don't have any. So prepare like five, six, seven questions. In one of the interviews I had the employer kept asking questions, he wanted to make sure I did my research on the firm, and it is very important. One of the things that I find in interviews is they want to hear you speak; they want to see that you're an intelligent person. It doesn’t matter what you talk about, but try to talk as much as possible. Of course you have to be polite and if the employer asks you a question, you should answer, and give them the opportunity to learn what they need, but just if you can talk then talk, as long as it is to the point.
RD: Looking back on the whole accreditation process, is there anything that you would have done differently, or wished you had known when you went through the process?
ET: I should probably not have applied for an exemption from articling. I think that was a bit detrimental, but at the end of the day it was ok, I was hired as a third-year associate, so I’m very lucky, very fortunate to work for a great firm like Bennett Jones. Very good people, the partners I work with, some of them are great and very supportive. There is genuine mentorship there, and I think mentors are very important, even if you’re not a young lawyer. You need somebody, a person to ask questions. Sometimes it’s a professional thing, sometimes it may be a cultural issue, cultural differences about you know, somebody said something, what does it really mean. You understand the meaning of the word, but sometimes there’s something behind it that you may not understand.